Gator Speckled Trout in North Carolina and Virginia
Ep. 174 Giant Speckled Trout and Kayak Fishing at Night
Kayak Angler Mendell from Virginia Beach
Targeting Giant Speckled Trout
Introduction and Getting into Fishing
Jud: Medell thanks man for joining me on the podcast. You’ve been on the top of my list.
Mendell: It’s been a year in the making, but it’s so hard to get our schedules to line up. With work and family and fishing.
Jud: Yeah man, fishing is important, family is more important but fishing is right behind it. I am excited to talk to you today about speckled trout. You are pretty well known for catching big speckled trout from your kayak and I guess you kind of started with eyestrike. That was the connection between us. You’re up in VA area. Tell people where you are.
Mendell: I live in the city of VA beach about a mile off the ocean front so I’ll fish everywhere. Rudy Inlet, LenHaven Inlet, Elizabeth River, up onto the peninsula. Wherever the trout or redfish take me.
Jud: That’s awesome man, being a kayak angler does that area have a lot of kayak access?
Mendell: In my opinion there is a ton of access, but I am working some connections too. I can get in and out of a lot of areas especially at night without having to paddle so long from the boat ramps/
Jud: Heck yeah, that’s the cool thing to me about Kayak fishing in some areas. I have buddies that go down to FL and access all the land locked areas and I know that stuff exists here too. Going and catching snook and tarpon in spots you can only get to on a kayak. Tell us your story about how you got started fishing.
Mendell: I always hear the stories about people’s dad’s taking them fishing when they are growing up and mine is kind of the opposite. In 2017, my son came to me and wanted to start fishing. And I had never really fished, didn’t own a rod or reel, and I told my wife, alright this one is yours. She grew up on the intercoastal in Panama City actually so they went out and bought a walmart rod and reel, double dropper rigs and some fish bites and when to the pier, didn’t have any luck so maybe 3-4 weeks in it I said let me try. So we started catching some little spots and we were having a blast and he wanted to keep going. So in 2018, the next year, I got my own rig but he had switched his focus to fresh water, so we started catching some little bass in neighborhood retention ponds and stuff like that. We would go 4-5 trips without catching anything, but then we would go and get a 1-3 pound bass and it kept us going. We’d get skunked four or five times, but we just kept coming back. By then, later on in 2018, ran into a buddy of mine while he and I were out fishing and he rolled up in a Hobie Kayak and I thought it was awesome, so about 4 months after that in November Ingot my own.
Jud: Once you sat down in the kayak really lit the fire for you?
Mendell: Oh yeah man, in a kayak you can really pick spots apart and move on you are really more attuned with the water and what’s going on.
Jud: Do you feel it’s a better tool for you than a boat could be?
Mendell: The way I fish right now, I think kayaking is better for me for sure.
Jud: Some guys say they wish they could have a boat to transport their kayak.
Mendell: It makes you work the spot you have in front of you. I’ve got a range, I’ve done about 15 miles in my kayak and that’s a full day of hard work, but for the most part I can work a couple of miles and get exactly what I’m looking for.
Jud: Sometimes that motor screws you up, because it makes you not want to wait. I see this in my guiding som days. The run and gun and trying to find a spot rather than wait and milk a spot until it turns on. But when I have fished from a kayak it has helped me learn and read areas really well.
Mendell: I will relaunch and move around in a day to multiple spots.
Jud: When in your life of fishing, so you got the kayak, but when did it really start to come together, the passion for targeting big speckled trout?
Mendell: 2018 out there, we are in a mess of thirteen inch trout, every freaking cast, like 28 fish and i just laid back. IT was my very first trip. I am just laying back watching everybody else, and it was fun but I was like, is this what it is? I wasn’t complaining but… Then in 2019, I start catching some striper and in Septemberof 2019 I ran across a 26 and ¼ inch speckled trout and I;m looking at it and didn’t even realize they got that big. That was the moment! When I got on that fish, I thought it was a blue fish or a striper because it was not acting like a 13 inch trout and that was the defining moment as to what I wanted to do do moving forward.
Jud: Are you a speckled trout snob or do you still enjoy targeting stripers and redfish up there too?
Mendell: Those are my three targets; speckled trout first and then redfish and then striper. No, I’m not a speckled trout snob.
Jud: Well your instagram makes it look like you could get away with that title. I love hearing the story, especially with trout because it’s different from everything else. Like Redfish, the bigger they get the dumber they get, same with stripers, but trout aren’t like that. I don’t catch big stripers but 30-35 inch stripers, if he’s there and feeding.. But big speckled trout are different. It’s almost like fly tarpon anglers. Very different and very dedicated to the art of catching the fish a certain way. What would you say as a speckled trout angler, what is the most important thing to catching big fish? Is it the spot? Or the time? Is there an algorithm that works for you?
Mendell: I’ve been thinking about that for a while and to me, I go when I have time to go, that's the bottomline. In my mind, I’m consciously doing these calculations. I pick spots based on what I feel is going to work best. Whether it;s a place I can launch quickly and get to where I think they are going to be, or if it’s wind direction and trying to huddle up in my kayak and get away from the wind. But it’s almost all based on my experience. Most of the places I fish are places I’ve been. I am tracking behavior in my head based on what they were doing this time last year. It is spot based but there are plenty of other spots I know where they are. I will pick and choose based on convenience and wind direction.
Jud: I’ve noticed this more, myself wanting to target big speckled trout, four years old for me. I didn’t care much about them in my early career because I loved sight fishing so much. But then same thing, I got a big trout and targeting those trout was a thing. The adventure of trying to figure something out draws me into fishing. New place, new destination, new species, it’s jut fun putting those pieces of the puzzle together. Once I started targeting big trout, I realized they are creatures of habit. I can catch big fish, year after year, in the same spot if the conditions are right. I can catch multiple fish on this dock on the third piling back. It’s literally that specific. Do you have some nuances like that?
Mendell: Absolutely, I go to a lot of the same spots every single year, in the few years I’;ve been doing it. This year has been different. I am tight friends with Charlie Church and Daniel Craig, he builds my rods, we talk every single day. And those are the two dudes who have really driven my focus. He brought to my attention this study, from the NC Dept of Environmental Quality and NC division of green fisheries, he was talking about how biomass in this area and in NC have decreased this year vs. previous years. So I am normally in 2-6 feet of water and it’s usually the same places. I’ve got five areas in our waterways that I target for these fish and it’s always in 2-6 feet of water, but this year I had to go a little bit deeper. We had a cold snap in the fish and that drove whatever small biomass we had into smaller pockets in two specific areas with deeper water. I had to change my whole plan because of that I was still getting a few in my 2-6 ft range areas, but not nearly as much as there were in the past couple years.
Jud: When y’all got that colder snap did you see much of a fish kill or was it slow enough that the fish made it to deeper water for the most part?
Mendell: I think it was slow enough that they were able to get deeper. I don’t know what happened a little North of us, but I heard reports of a lot of stunned fish swimming around sluggishly, but how many were dead, I’m not certain. That’s a Charlie Church question
Jud: Charlie is definitely one of those guys, He is a science fisherman. I am never going to be that guy, I’d love to be, but i’m just not. A lot of my wording and stuff that I say that sounds scientific is something someone else told me.
Mendell: If I ever sound smart when it comes to trout, it’s probably something Charlie told me.
Jud: Yeah for sure. That’s the nice thing about this podcast, is I can get a lot of smart sounding things to say from my guests, but if anyone has listened long enough they know it’s not from me.
Mendell: Truth be told, I’m that guy that goes out and just grinds the heck out of it. I’ll go to the place i’ve had experience in the past and then you can look on google earth and find other spots like that. Similar set up and tides, winds, and temperatures and I just get trying to duplicate that success on other spots. I just grind out to add another spot to my collection.
Current Driven Trout
Jud: Do you feel like speckled trout up there are very current driven? Are you looking for current to target big fish or are you finding fish without much current?
Mendell: I am finding fish in all current conditions. The majority of the spots I fish, I’ve always preferred an outgoing tide, and because of my timing I fish when I can which is overnight typically and into morning; I am literally a weekend warrior. If I could get three days out in a week, that is incredible. I go when I can and I have had to figure out how to fish all the different phases.
Jud: I think that makes you a better angler in the long run, when you can’t always choose when to fish. IT shortens the learning curve when you take it seriously.
Mendell: the limited amount of time out there, I use the best I can to learn on every trip.
Jud: Low tide here is the easiest time because they are schooled up in little pockets, but if I just went to fish then, I wouldn;t learn about the fish at other tides. Having to fish different tides and moon phases and weather conditions, jumpstarts that learning process. What would you say specifically that speckled trout like where you are? What kind of things are they drawn towards structure wise in the VA Beach area?
Mednell: I target them in 2-6 foot range near drop offs. So when I’m out there, it’s nighttime and they have less predatory pressure on them, so they are closer to the top, and they are [patrolling the shallows a lot more freely than they normally would. I am looking for the darkest areas, where they can be free to do whatever they want. At night, you can see clearly what the bait is doing right under water. You can hear so much better at night on top of that. What I’m fishing is 2-6 feet of water on ledges. If it’s outgoing I’m looking for outflow creeks or drain creeks where it’s getting flushed out at night and during the day.
Jud: What’s the main foredge for your area, trout season, what are the fish feeding on predominantly?
Mendell: Mullet.
Jud: Do y’all have a decent amount of smaller mullet around during the winter? Or is a lot of the bugger mullet?
Mendell: No we’ve got finger mullets during the winter for sure.
Jud: That’s awesome. We see that a lot north of us, but it’s hard to come across the finger mullet in the winter in Wilmington. If you can find finger mullet this time of year, you are going to find some predatory fish around them for sure.
Baits and Rod Choice when Fishing for Big Speckled Trout
Jud: So being an eyestrike guy, if you were to set up to fish a swim bait or an eye strike jig of your choice, what would be your go-to for speckled trout?
Mendell: Texas eye, the 5 inch z-man
Jud: Do you find yourself fishing soft plastics more or do you like hard baits better?
Mendell: I like hard baits better because that’s what I’m comfortable with. Mostly a 27 MR. They came out with the 28MR and it works really well for me too. They got pushed into deeper water so I am targeting them in 10 feet of water mostly, but those ledges off those 10 foot spots are 15-20 feet deep. This actually taught me a lot about speckled-trout than I knew before because it certainly taught me more patience. Ia m casting a heavy or a 27 MR and I am waiting 20 seconds before I do anything. I cross my arms and countdown and wait and wait and wait. 20 seconds later I start working it back but really slowly. It’s taught me a ton of patience and it’s been fruitful so kind of another tool in the tool bag. Prior to that I did not have patience for 6 feet of water with a 27 MR. That was only a 5 second wait.
Jud: Fishing 10 feet of water more with a 27, you have to have a conversion pretty quickly to stick with it. To fish something that slow that deep, if I went and fished all day like and din’t catch a fish or 2, I would start to doubt my bait. Did you stumble into fishing that bait that slow in deep water?
Mednell: I literally, when I started fishing deeper water, I would wait less time. IT wasn’t until I got super close to the bottom and worked it very slow. You’ll hear a lot about “twitch twitch pause.” I stumbled onto super slow steady retrieve, infrequent twitches seemed to work for the best from 2020 to now. That’s pretty much what I’m doing. Sometimes as soon as the usb starts coming up they get real active near the surface and I won’t let it sink as deep. I’ll work it a little quicker.
Jud: Those bites on a 27 on a decent size trout, it’s so fun. I can only imagine in 20 feet of water.
Mendell: I got in a couple good bites in 12-18 feet of water and I swapped the hooks on them and got it to sink a little bit faster but it’s still a hell of a wait. That was awesome.
Jud: There is something satisfying about fishing something that is light in deep water. You know it’s difficult so when it happens it feels good. Another one under my belt! Have you played around with lead strips on your hard baits?
Mendell: The 27MR is light so I love putting some lead strips on there. That’s what I used to do years ago when I was starting to target trout in slightly deeper water. When the 28s came out, man, you know, the first tim ewI fished it was in 4-6 feet of water just to play around with it when they came out. You look at it and you think “this sinks like a rock” but when you’re in 10-20 feet of water, it sinks fast at first, but then that leader and line start catching up and start slowing down that descent. It seems to work out. I’m always on the retrieve, I rarely let it roll. You get it down to the depth you want and as long as you’ve got that nice slow steady retrieve, I’m not really catching them on the pause as much as other people do. So the majority of the big trout that I’ve got here recently has been on a very slow retrieve on the go.
Jud: You’re not going to miss that bite if you’re just slow rolling it and getting whacked on a hard bait like that.
Mednell: I did go through a couple of sessions with a few good ones where it was tail hook only. Barely hooked, just by the skin. Smacked and reacted in time and played it well enough to keep it on.
Jud: Fishing a hard bait with treble in that deep of water, I feel like your rod choice is pretty important. What is the right rod for trebles in deep water with big fish is?
Mendell: I’m not really that technical to be honest with you.
Jud: Okay, but would you say a softer tip is important?
Mendell: Yes it is, Daniel Craig builds some of the most phenomenal rods. DC sticks and all of his are set up for trout with century rod blanks. They’ve got some great flex to them. Some of these should be snapping but they hold up so well. They’ve got a nice soft tip and that certainly helps.
Jud: Being a kayak angler and fishing for speckled trout, I noticed a second ago you said you like to stand up when you fish? Is that something you’re always doing when trout fishing?
Mendell: I prefer to fish tip down, which is what I got used to. I’m in a kayak almost 100% of the time and when I am fishing, I am standing up 99% of the time.
Jud: For some reason, I’ve got to bring it to my side a little bit. IT doesn’t have to be down, but I have so much more control with it by my side; but fishing the depth you’re fishing, the rod tip up has to make it harder to keep it down.
Mendell: Exactly, if I’m standing up ina spot wether drifting or anchor dup, in my kayak it’s super stable, with a nice open platform, I am literally 360 degrees casting in all directions. I just turn around standing up on the kayak. I am the guy that casts a thousand times. I just beat an area to death before I figure out which angle they want it presented. Sometimes you’re casting into a spot, but at a different angle they react and then you’re on them. I cannot fish sitting down in a kayak. If I’m out in the bay and looking for big bull redfish, yeah I’ll sit down, because it gets a little hectic out there. But that’s really the only time. If i’m out for trout or pups, up to 32 inches, I’m standing up casting for them.
Jud: So you will move into an area, stand up and make your drift standing?
I am a new kayak angler. I have really enjoyed fishing from one, and I feel like I have good balance, because I will pole a skiff in a swell, but I stand up in a kayak and I feel like I am going to die. So my balance is good, but not that good. It’s funny how your body can get adjusted in certain scenarios, but you switch it up and the kayak rocks differently and I’ve struggled.
Mendell: Oh yeah, you put me in a boat in the same conditions and I feel like I’ll fall over. The wider the platform, the quicker you will get adjusted to it. They certainly make much more stable kayaks than the Hobie Outback. They’ve got the pro angler which is super wide. Whatever you use, you just get used to it. What do you have?
Jud: I’ve got a p127. It's a bonafide Kayak. It’s pretty stable. It really is just me not being used to it yet. I’m getting older. I used to think balance was my best friend.
Mendell: I grew up skating and surfing, and that’s why there’s that connection between surfing and fishing. I am with you 100%. Don’t sell yourself short. I am turning 50 this weekend and if I can do it, you can do it.
Jud: If I do fall out, I will send you a picture of me dripping wet. Before we wrap this up, if someone has never caught a big speckled trout, what would be your biggest tip for them, wherever they live, going out and grinding and catching a citations?
Mendell: Find a mass of trout first. Don’t be discouraged if you’re catching 13, 14, 15 inch fish, because those big ones are lurking nearby. If you’re catching some trout that are less than 15-18 inches, then you should probably move out of the way. I have caught some of the biggest, around small trout. They use those as food sources as well. But yeah, commit to a spot you have had success with before and work the heck out of it. They are everywhere. It is a whole lot of the right timing and once you find it, you might be able to duplicate it.
Jud: I’ve talked to a lot of people who catch big ones out of areas with a lot of 13-15 inch fish int hem/. I’ve thought that theory too that they eat those smaller fish.
Mendell: You’re in a mess of 15 inch fish? Cast along the edges until you get something a little bigger or the one that you want.
Jud: Thank you so much for jumping on! That was such good information. I love talking to guys about speckled-trout. Been stoked for a year to get you on, I do appreciate it. Tell me your instagram handle
Mendell: CloudBreakMods
Jud: You need to follow him if you want to see some big speckled trout.